Thursday, December 27, 2007


It has often been said that I have the best fiance a man like me, or any man for that matter, could have. I tend to agree. That was not made more clear then last night when one of the late packages arrived for an extra special bonus gift on the day after Jesus' birthday cake.

I am only saddened by the fact that I could not wear it on the actual day, but Easter is approaching.
Maybe the greatest clothing related Christmas present ever.


Livingamongmorons said...

Groan. The nonstop religion-bashing on this site is getting really, really old. Anyone want to explain to me how obsessively trashing the Religious is somehow superior to the preaching of Same?

Here's an old saying, appropriate I think for the times: Live and Let Live. I can't imagine what harm you think someone's personal faith is doing you. May I politely suggest that you see therapy to determine just when you developed this compulsive need to snark on people who are just minding their own business and living the way they want to?

Trust me, the people you are snarking on don't give a flying crap what you think of them. And for good reason.

Shane Rollins said...

Doing to me, nothing. What the religious right is doing to this country however is down right criminal. The religious right would love nothing more then to have their faith and beliefs rule over all, they have desired this ever since the creation of the Catholic church.

Gay marriage
Government funds going to churches
The abstinence only teaching programs
The crusades in the middle east, yes that is indeed what it is
Stem Cell research

All these things are either being hampered or pursued due to what some people believe Jesus Christ stood for. Our bashing is valid when it could seek to withhold rights from people simple because a jewish zombie in a book said something that they believe is interpreted as such.

Religion is a personal thing, but I would easily be mocked for saying that I hang myself from a tree in honor of Odin. If one's beliefs are so firm and fast then they shouldn't be shaken by a t-shirt that explains exactly it is that you are believing.

Livingamongmorons said...

Two comments, if you don't mind:

1. 99.99% of all religious people don't care how anyone else lives. They certainly aren't interested in denying anyone their rights. Assigning the beliefs and goals of a handful of TV hucksters and politicians to the great mass of believers is just ignorant.

2. You aren't attacking their views on gays, abortion, etc. with these stupid t-shirts; you are assaulting their fundamental belief system. If you want to fight back against their prejudices, I'm all for it. Going after their root beliefs is just stupid and no better than what the few you condemn are doing. You don't get that?

3. Do you think you are fighting fire with fire here? Well, let me educate you a bit: all you are doing is confirming the idiot theory of guys like Bill O'Reilly that the non-religious are at war with the Religious. Crap like this shirt just gives them ammunition. I'm an Agnostic, but I have nothing but respect for religious people, the vast majority of whom, as I've already pointed out, are perfectly happy to let me live my life as I see fit, if I am only as willing to let them live theirs as THEY see fit.

But go ahead, wear your t-shirt. I actually think that the world would be a better place if all bigots advertised themselves, makes it easier to see them coming.

SayHey Kid said...

Personally, I think the greatest t-shirt ever printed was the shirt the kid wore in "The Jerk". It said nothing more than "Bullshit". LOVE IT!!

Back to the debate. I believe faith should be a personal bond between whatever entity you believe in and yourself. Shane has a point though. There are those in this country that believe that they have a duty to God and Country to exploit that bond to include Governments intervention on the aformentioned topics. Mainly the Republican Right.

What harm is there to oppose the Religious machine by mocking it?

Shane Rollins said...

The number of 99.99% is far from accurate. Perhaps it is where you live, but in the south it is FAR from accurate. If it was true then those asshats who are on TV would have no one listening to them. Mike Huckabee wouldn't have "floating crosses" in his TV campaign. It is true that many Christians are beginning to understand the separation of their faith and politics, but many have not.

The Republicans do not run on the religious ticket because it doesn't sell. They do it because folks are afraid of what happens to them when they die. Religion was created to control the masses, and the current Republican part has been hijacked by those that want everyone believing in zombie jesus, and stoning all the none believers.

If all those religious people don't care how other people live, then why are they so opposed to gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As for attacking their views, well yes this shirt does attack their views since one of their views involves a zombie, telepathy and a talking snake. They view that to be the gospel.

We ARE at war with the insane religious right, but we didn't start it. They began this war because they know the way people think, what their fears are, etc. Not fighting fire with fire is the mistake, standing on principal and not sinking to their level may make you feel warm inside but it will not prevent them from taking away your rights or forcing you to follow a zombie.

I'm all for people believing what they wish to believe. When you or your party attempts to force ME to believe those same things that's when I have a serious problem.

SayHey Kid said...

We are knee deep in religious fanaticism and have been since the Falwell's and the Graham's came to power. I spent a good portion of my youth in the south and the fact that it was "unwise" of me to speak of my faith is proof of that of your inaccurate number.

I disagree Shane. I think that the trump card of the Republican party is religion.

When you play with fire you get burned. So the saying goes. I think your both right and wrong at the same time. If we stand back and do nothing, the religious nonsense will seep into our schools and every other aspect of our lives, thus, resulting in a asswiping of our Consitutions. If we do to much, we get into another war of theology with ourselves.

Citycat said...

Livingamongmorons- Funny thing, I was religious, my parents are still religious, and they find the shirt hilarious. Even if, as you say, 99.9% of "all religious people" (really? All?)don't care what other people do with their lives, I have found that, (I can make up a percentage too and call it a statistic) 89% of "religious people" also have a sense of humor. I'm sure that all of my religious friends (who all thought the shirt was hilarious, by the way) appreciate that an agnostic like you has their back.

Oh yes, I see a lot of problems with the religious right, but I don't necessarily think every single damn thing needs to go back to it all the time. People have a Jesus fish, I have a Darwin fish. I find the statement "God is Dead- Nietzsche, Nietzsche is dead- God", to be pretty clever, even though I don't agree with it.

Sometimes, it's not about politics and bashing and being on a damn high horse. Sometimes, it's just about taking a real look at yourself and the world around you and enjoying a laugh at some of it's idiosyncracies. I'm sorry if you don't find it funny, but I also don't agree that that makes me a bigot.

Anonymous said...

"We ARE at war with the insane religious right, but we didn't start it." G.W. Bush

"I'm all for people believing what they wish to believe. When you or your party attempts to force ME to believe those same things that's when I have a serious problem."

Yeah... know what you mean. In school, I HAD to cater to Darwinism, or flunk! The system wasn't as free-thinking and progressive as you.

LUV the T-shirt. Shows an impartial and tolerant mind, alright. Probably the same mentality behind the Dark Ages and the Crusades... neither of which represented the religion of the Man from Nazareth.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how matter can suddenly just 'appear' from nowhere, all on it's own, and then manipulate itself through a complex evolutionary process under less-than-hospitable (lethal) environmental conditions, and eventually endow itself with useless traits like 'love' and 'faith' and other unecessary and rediculous sentiments and abilities totally unecessary for the survival of the organism. I don't remember ever seeing the lowest life forms ever producing a Rembrandt or a Monet; or a sonnet, or a Fifth Symphony... and they've supposedly been around for millions of years longer than us.

I guess they just didn't need to evolve any further. And by what's written on that shirt, I'll wager it's author has evolved about as far as he or she's going to go, too.

Shane Rollins said...

I know how nasty things like science and the like are just pesky, you know with their facts and such. What do they know with these new fangled theories, the bible has been around for centuries, after of course it was nitpicked by a bunch of men to include only the books they deemed important. How dare a school system attempt to teach you evolutionary theory, didn't they know Jesus Mary and Joseph had locked that door and threw away the key?

The intolerant minds that thought they must kill another group of people because the big bad sky bully told them to are the same ones who believe in a telepathic cosmic jewish zombie. It does represent the religion for that is what it became. It became the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Salem, and the blind eye during WWII.

We agree, it doesn't represent the Man from Nazareth, then again few actually do follow his message of love, peace, forgiveness and acceptance.

Everything starts somewhere, by your very own argument something must have created God, or did he just "appear from nowhere"? We don't know how everything started and will never know. The difference being is those who believe in evolution do not go about fighting and prosecuting others because they don't believe that a man is made from dirt and woman made from his rib.

It sounds like, to me at least, that someone is a tiny bit sensitive about someone mocking their respective religion. I ask this though, is anything on that shirt actually wrong when it comes to Christian beliefs?

Dews said...

I have removed a comment from LAM. Discussion and debate is one thing, when it goes beyond that it has no place here.

Anonymous said...

"It sounds like, to me at least, that someone is a tiny bit sensitive about someone mocking their respective religion. I ask this though, is anything on that shirt actually wrong when it comes to Christian beliefs?"

You know, I don't believe there is one living person on this planet that cannot be offended when someone else attacks their beliefs or religion. The degree of offense depends on the person. My tolerance of ignorance is great, and I believe you know very little about true Christianity - not the pseudo-Christianity portrayed by fundamentalists with political ambitions, or extremists, which you are probably referring to, but the kind of faith that millions practice inoffensively, day by day. These still get lumped in with the extremists, and all of Christianity gets a bad name because of it. There's no discretion, just blatant carpet-bombing with the same old tired rhetoric... like that T-shirt so eloquently portrays.

No, I won't be losing any sleep over your post or the shirt - I did laugh when I saw it, despite myself, but then I remembered that some are very adamant to the point of violence over such things, and I felt commenting might even things up a bit. You can believe what you want, I couldn't care less. But, any belief system should be arrived at only after a thorough examination of all the facts and alternatives.

I was raised in an atheistic home, schooled in secular institutions teaching humanistic theories, and I am bombarded with atheistic 'values' and culture much more than Christian. Merely turning on the TV and tuning in any major media network will NOT give you a Christian perspective on things. That involves a more thorough and detailed search, as those type of programs are not as readily available and up front.

My friend, that shirt is so riddled with slander and error, it would be impossible to answer your last comment without glorifying it's (the shirt's) innate stupidity, but I'll try. I don't know any zombies, even secular ones. I wouldn't worship one if I did. As for eating flesh, I'm not into Transubstantiation as tradition sees it... it is pagan. It is merely a symbolic act of faith. The temptation of Eve was a test of allegiance and faith and obedience... and the tree was not magical. The serpent was a superior fallen being with the power to disguise his appearance, and as for the the "rib-woman", think of it like this... scientists take smaller pieces than that to 'create' living beings every day in laboratories all over the world. Ever hear of cloning?

In finishing, I'd say you would have to be from another planet to NOT see an evil working in this world. I followed you from a blog that uses that term almost indiscriminately. No evil? I wouldn't want to have to argue that premise in front of a jury of my peers! Finally, if there is a superior being that could create an entire universe, and clone mankind and maintain all that He has created, I think communication by "telepathy" or any other means would be a rather secondary, insignificant achievement... much like us conversing over thousands of miles distance, whereas apes can only yell... what... a few hundred meters, tops?

You have a sports-oriented blog, here. It's really quite detailed and thorough. I wouldn't think of taking you on in any trivia contests. I'm imagining your knowledge of football dwarfs mine on my best day. (Which still isn't very good!) I've been studying matters of religion AND humanism for the better part of thirty years, and not to put too fine a point on it, I'll just suggest to you that, given what I've read here, you don't have the experience to make the statements you have, or tout the crap that shirt states, either. Not that you are incapable of understanding one day... I wouldn't be bothering commenting here if that were the case... but you do not understand now, and are not even close.

Unfortunately, this last hurdle can only be accomplished by doing exactly what you have disdained... communicating with the "Zombie" Himself. Books and teachers like myself have only so much value in learning truth. We are a means to an end, which is the Master, Himself.

Hope that made sense.

Shane Rollins said...

Now there is no need for that, he can think whatever he wants about intolerance. Of course being intolerant about a religion's actions for being intolerant is always as bad as being intolerant toward those who don't believe the same as you do.

What happened to the world when one was able to mock the another for their beliefs and actions? When did we become so thin skinned where every knock on something was a personable offense?

I'm not being intolerant of Christians, if I was I would never be able to see my family, especially my uncle who is a baptist pastor. They have their beliefs, and I have mine. They are not the "Christians" you see many here on this site ranting about. They accept people for who they are and love them for their differences, you know sorta like how Jesus taught back in the day. They don't have issues with gay marriage, or abortions, or other religions because there are worse things in the world and they want to live and let live. The Christians we compain about are those who would have a Christian flag next to the American. Those who wish to make this country a theocracy, who believe that One Country Under God means Jesus and not the God you yourself have decided to believe in.

So please, assume we are intolerant of Christians, all Christians, if that is what you choose. You don't have to stick around if you so like, but we will not stand idly by as a portion of this Nation attempts to force the non-believers into prayers every morning. There are plenty of countries that do that, and aren't those the ones we're fighting in the middle east?

Anonymous said...

Typo there... should have read "... better part of FIFTY years..."


Shane Rollins said...

highway-That made a lot of sense, and I do appreciate you finding our little neck of the woods and commenting for one thing we do love to have is an intelligent discussion, even if this post is not evidence of that. I will fill you in on a few things about me that may help you understand better.

Like you may have read in the post that came very quickly after yours, I was raised in a Christian household. Going to church was a normal weekly event for me, and I enjoyed it immensely. My Uncle is a Baptist pastor and I was very close to him growing up so I do know a good deal about the religion and what is said in the bible. I haven't studied it for thirties years, but religious study is one I plan on expanding on when I return to school next fall.

As I got older, and wiser, I made certain decisions. I thought about things, I came to grips with myself, and had many experiences. It is there that I did not believe in the God that the Bible portrays. I do believe in, well let us just call it the supernatural, but I am of the opinion that man himself is arrogant to believe that he knows what whatever it is intentions are. There was the first problem I had with religion, the arrogance of man to believe they knew what God wanted.

It was also about this time the extreme right started to get into power. Yes, I realize that most Christians aren't as legally insane as some of these out on the edge, but they are just as guilty as those who didn't stand up to, insert word here that I won't say as to not Godwin, when they had the power to stop it. They continually elect and put into power those who would rule this country as a theocracy.

I believe all have the right to believe anything they desire, these fringe elements believe there is only one belief that should be allowed. Last I checked it said Freedom of Religion and it means all religions not just those that consist of a cross.

I know some would take offense to the shirt, but if you take the bible at face value then the shirt is accurate at face value. You've said you've studied for thirty years, but there are those who believe everything in the bible to be word for word literal. If it is word for word literal then the shirt is accurate. A zombie is a person who rises from the dead, is that not what Jesus did?

Finally on your point of mocking people's religion, I see people all the time mock Jewish people, people of Islamic faith, and yet we're not allowed to mock Christianity. The street must flow both ways.

Anonymous said...

Your history of affiliation with the Baptists does clarify things, and I'm not surprised that being raised in a Christian home, you decided to go your own way. I've seen that a lot, in many faiths. It was the reverse for me, and I found 'myself', as it were, leaving what I term the closed-mindedness of secularism. It also cleared up many scientific issues for me that conventional Darwinism seemed inadequate to answer. You have already seen an example of what I mean by that in my first comment. The supernatural was another interest of mine, and I dabbled in the Occult for a time. There were some, shall we say, 'interesting' developments with that.

It was during my fledgling years as a "baby" Christian that I discovered the "New World Order", which is the focus of my blogging activity, now. I have been blogging since 2003 on this subject, and have moved around a lot, going through several blogs. This current one is the latest in a procession of about six.

Anyway, as stated, my primary focus is on the NWO, which has a religious hierarchy. Religious, but NOT Christian! You see, this is where many people go off target. A Christian would not impose his/her religion on anyone, under any circumstance. What we are dealing with in North America is an amalgamation of pseudo-Christian and pagan beliefs at the highest levels, filtering down to the lower political echelons which act as enforcement for NWO policy. I am being deliberately vague, here, because of the sensitivity of some readers with a penchant for taking things out of context. Suffice to say for now that it is not Christianity in back of the political process, it is paganism. Even it's political dupes don't know that, but religious entities do lay in back of all major policy changes in political and bureaucratic circles. You weren't wrong in assuming religion was responsible, just that it isn't Christianity, although many professed Christians have been duped into following elitist programs. Some knowingly and willingly. Those, to me, are a mystery.

You know, God's a big boy, if I may be so flippant. He doesn't need me or any mortal to help Him fight His battles. We are here only to testify of what we've seen and heard. That's all I'm doing here. That's all any Christian needs to do. Some do take it further, I do admit that. We are ALL human, and zealous for whatever cause we find. It's in our being to be what we are. Speaking from a theological standpoint, it wasn't always that way. This is where humanist thinking and Christian thinking part company.

Science is an illuminating thing, but it must be in harmony with it's Creator's plan. I have found that it is, when viewed without humanistic bias. You, yourself, spoke of biased interpretations... that man injects his own theory into the supernatural. I agree... it's called Humanism. Sure, there are false interpretations of scripture, as well. Goes with the territory. I didn't have all of my facts straight at the beginning, either. Still don't. I do, however, have enough evidence to know that there is an intelligent design to life, and that the future is possible only if there is a God that is ultimately in charge.

I could say a lot more, but I'd be blog-hogging, and I won't do that. I will say that the word "zombie" is probably the critical word in that shirt's 'statement' in that a true zombie is NOT dead... only chemically induced into a catatonic state simulating death. I have association with certain individuals who have done mission work in the Dominican Republic and Haiti, where this stuff does occur fairly regularly as a part of occult ceremonies and practice. Those 'zombies' are not really dead. The Hollywood versions may be, but that's Hollywood - fantasyland! The crux of the entire Christian faith, or philosophy, if you will, DEPENDS on the fact that Christ DID DIE and was resurrected! If that never happened, the underpinnings of Christianity would fall, and the whole matter rendered inert. So you see, it is vital for that term not to be used; it is a contradiction. Probably why it was chosen, the same as Christ being crucified on a pagan symbol... for maximum effect - maximum insult.

Finally, I'm no angel. Anyone familiar with me knows I do take my liberty with the English language in my writing, and I can give back as good as I get. I try to be civil in tongue on other's blogs, though. That isn't a veiled threat. I mention it because anyone visiting my blog will occasionally see what might be deemed 'unChristian' deportment. On my turf, I sometimes use whatever term or expletive I feel best gets the message across. But my motives are clean, and I allow anyone to say their peace... even if it involves a piece of me!

My street is not only two-way, but four lanes wide, as well!


Shane Rollins said...

I know what you speak of quite well, and for me "Christianity" in religion form on its own is flawed. Jesus said the only way into heaven is through me, by accepting me into your heart etc, etc, etc, etc. The creation of a church blinded that thought process. Now there were confessions, prosperity churches, all these various other things that you had to do that had zero to do with accepting Christ as your personal savior.

I have no problem with folks who have done this. If that is what they need to make themselves sleep better at night, go for it. My problem is the political arm, it is the over zealous. I don't know if you've ever seen Jesus Camp, but if you haven't I suggest you do, it's people like that that scar the shit out of me.

I am a person who believes in personal liberty, that a person should have the freedom to do as he pleases as long as it doesn't physically harm another human being. Many of these people attempt to use religion in place of being a good parent. My parents are religious, but they didn't use hellfire and brimstone to keep me in line, they used parenting. They allowed me the freedom to learn and explore and find out who I am, but had enough of a leash on me that they could reign me in when needed.

You and I understand what the bible says, that it isn't necessarily word for word verbatim and that most of it is a moral philosophy wraped around stories. This shirt is meant for those that believe the bible, word for word. Zombie is used because that is a word those folks would understand. Of course many folks since him have died and come back to life as well, the benefits of modern science. So I believe the shirt uses Zombie because of its familiarity and shock value. Most folks don't know and or don't believe in the things that happen in Hati and the like.

I got no problems with Jesus, I think he was an awesome person with some amazing ideas of how to live one's life. It is just very rare, at least for me, to find someone who actually lives life the way Jesus wanted you to. Especially those who call themselves, Christians...and have it plastered all over their car, clothing and selves.

Livingamongmorons said...

RE: Deleted Post.

Sorry, I didn't understand the rules of the site. I think I get it now: Calling 100 million nameless, faceless people who generally aren't here to defend themselves Morons: OK.

Calling one specific person who happens to be a regular contributor the site a moron: Not OK.

Spewing ignorant crap about a religion one isn't even attempting to understand beyond a first-grade Sunday School level (that's actually giving him credit): OK.

Suggesting said ignoramus stick to issues he has some knowledge of: Not Ok.

Now that I get the rules, I'll just avoid this site. I didn't request that posts that offended me get deleted, I just tried to respond to them. I thought that was the point of having a Comment Box. Now that I know that only certain viewpoints are considered acceptable, I'll just unsubscribe. Bye all.

Shane Rollins said...

Want a quarter to call someone who cares?

I don't agree with the deletion personally, and I wouldn't have done it and I'm not quite sure as to why Dews did but it's been done.

As for your oh so witty response, you do realize that other people have other opinions other then your own. Your "beliefs" are yours, not others, and you're free to click off at any time. Evidently your refusal to listen to other trains of thought in regards to your blind faith naturally makes us the first graders, even if I've probably done more study on the bible and religions then you ever will.

So have fun, though I doubt anyone is going to miss you.

Dews said...

there are no "rules" per se, but as the saying goes, "winning a flame war on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even when you win you lose".

You are not debating, you are trying to make something personal because you feel strongly about an issue. There is nothing wrong with feeling strongly about something and wanting to engage in a dialogue with someone that has offended you, but if you intend on being a "contributor" by just bitching about certain articles and not actually writing anything, then I don't have any qualms deleting things that strike at a particular contributor for their work here.

Viewpoints are one thing, flaming someone is on another level entirely.

Have a level head about a topic you feel strongly about and see where you go from there, good luck.

SayHey Kid said...

Im shaking my head in confussion as to the deletion as well, but im sure Dews had a pretty good reason for doing it.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I think Shane has every right to advertise himself as "anti-machine" just like someone has the right to plaster a cross of Jesus on their back. It goes both ways, regardless of who and how much it offends.

I am Jewish and I spent many years of my youth in Christian dominated, Southern VA. I had to endure every "Jesus is all powerfil and lets kill Arabs" or "A-Rabs" as they referred to as. I couldnt mention my faith for fears of getting beaten up. Which did indeed happen if I slipped up. Why is it ok for someone to wear a t-shirt that slurs someones sexual orientation or other non-Christian ones and not a shirt that does the opposite? Its a breathe of fresh air to me when I see someone challenge religious "norms" of accepting Jesus Christ or paying the ultimate consequence in life and in hell.

My advice is, dont take the shirt literally. Its simply an expression.

Dewey, Cheatem, & Howe said...

I took a sick day yesterday because of this nasty, nasty bronchitis that is plaguing my lungs, so consequently I missed this entire thread yesterday because I didn't even touch my laptop until late last night.

First off, the shirt is comic gold because it talks about an uneasy subject, religion. It's funny in the same way that gay jokes and jokes about any minority are: patently offensive and joking about sensitive, non-PC material. And it's not as if you can't joke about religion. By all means, go for it. The problem with Shane's approach here is that it's not subtle or witty. You can make all the "fight fire with fire" cliche references you like, but when you get down to it, wit and tastelessness are separated by an understanding (and articulation) of subtle, meaningful differences. The kind of thing that causes someone to pause their thinking and reevaluate their beliefs. You're a smart kid, Shane, you can do it.

This t-shirt? I'll paint you a picture of the kid who'd wear it. An overweight, scraggly bearded, long-haired, Mountain Dew chugging, World of Warcraft playing, Dreamtheatre t-shirt wearing, wanna-be intellectual elitist college junior asshole bent on criticizing anyone and everything. You're better than that, Shane, I know it.

Second, you can hammer on the Marxist notion of religion as the opiate of the masses all you like, but until you stop painting the whole debate in such broad strokes, you will continue to make folks like the Highway Man (if I understand him correctly) seem correct. You will make their science-as-the-new-religion argument seem correct because you will make it seem as though you blindly accept whatever is "proved" through the rigor of scientific process so long as a guy with Ph.D after his name gives his stamp of approval, just as some would accept whatever a man with Rev. before his name says.

Okay, I'm done.

Dews said...

There we go! Level-headed discussion!


Religious discussion = walking through the DMZ between the Koreas without a metal detector...

SayHey Kid said...

Religious discussion also gets the neurons firing on all cylinders. If not for this VERY debatable topic, I would be asleep at my desk right now. I dont think we have scratched the surface of this debate.

What would frighten be about wearing a shirt like that, especially in Houston, is that people do get VERY fired up and damn near violent when there faith comes into question. Ignorance is bliss and people do follow those who preach, no matter how insane. Just look at Jonestown.

I do love the shirt but would highly advise not wearing it our in public. In ignorant religious nutbag is more dangerous than a loaded gun.

Shane Rollins said...

DC&H-I love you gave me the opportunity to say this...

Who's scruffy looking?

Yes, what you say is very true, but contrary to public opinion I don't have the entire day to be as eloquent as I should be. I paint with broad strokes many times because it covers a majority, and on this issue I do believe that a majority is where we sit on this issue. The majority of people who openly identify themselves as "Christians" are those we consider the "extreme fringe" of Christianity.

Scratch that, let me say the majority of those who are online are that way. The majority of those I have interacted with are that way. I don't go up complaining to folks who have a jesus bumper sticker, or an anti-abortion, or any other "Christian" message. I will however get stopped plenty of times about a Cthulhu or Odin fish decal. Why are "Christians" given the sole right to bash every other religion but their's is taboo?

To me this shirt is witty and hilarious since it does pretty much boil Christian beliefs down to its base parts. It may just be me, but one's faith shouldn't be threatened because someone is wearing a shirt ridiculing what you believe. If that threatens your faith so badly, perhaps your faith isn't that strong.

Dewey, Cheatem, & Howe said...

What you've is, in part, true. We live, or, more accurately speaking, ought to live in a society where the free exchange of ideas is cherished. A Supreme Court justice from long ago (I want to say Brandeis, but I'm not sure) once wrote that we should live in a free market of ideas, because it will require ideas to stand on their merits, and the weakest notions will wither and die in the face of truth. I really embellished that one, but you get the idea.

The free exchange of ideas is wonderful, but not without conflict. Personally, I embrace the conflict because I can be combative, but not everyone is like me in that respect. If you think that Christianity lacks truth, go ahead, attack if you will. What I don't understand is your outrage at the outrage you're met with. Of course a Christian is going to criticize you if you criticize her. Likewise, of course a Christian is going to criticize you without prompting. That's how the free exchange of ideas works. People look for weaknesses and attack when they think they see one, and they respond to what they perceive as an attack no matter who truly insignificant it may be.

For example, in my opinion, this creationism-evolution debate is a huge friggin red herring. In my opinion, whether God (or, for Sayhey, G-d) created the earth in six days or five billion years has little to do with the moral and ethical approaches to life that Jesus tried to explain to us, whether Jesus was the Son of God, and whether the Bible as a whole is believable. But, folks get real worked up about evolution because they've been told its a fundamental assault on their beliefs. Likewise, a smart-ass (well, as I've said, dumb-ass in my opinion) t-shirt ought not matter. But, it's an attack. Expect a response, a counterattack if you will.

Let me add another thought. If we weren't American, I think that this whole debate would've taken a different track. We're not witty folk, we Americans. Maybe we Yankees are witty, but not the country as a whole. We're far to black and white, righteous and evil, good and bad oriented for wit. Shitty situation, ours.

Shane Rollins said...

I'm not outraged by the outrage, what annoys me is the hypocrisy that these folks have. They will chastise and blast every other belief, but when it comes to their it is holy, pardon the pun.

The shirt however is for those who are easily offensive, and meant to be. We have shown it to other religious folk and they thought it was amusing. They get the joke within it and were able to laugh. I find it amusing that "Christians" who tend to hate hate "Muslims" so much and mock them at their reaction to their prophet drawn in a cartoon are so easily up in arms when something similar to them.

It is a tool to incite those that cannot see they are only different then those they would mock by words alone. I've heard Christians mocking Muslims for having Islamic governments, and then sit there and proclaim that this is a Christian nation and certain things must be a certain way without the irony of their words.

I am completely aware of what reaction this shirt has, and I enjoy it. Why, I like stirring the pot every now and then. People can make fun of my beliefs all they want, but they don't know them. Why, because those beliefs are my own personal and that is the way it should be.

Anonymous said...

"I am completely aware of what reaction this shirt has, and I enjoy it. Why, I like stirring the pot every now and then."

Well, you're a 'highwayman' in your own right, Shane.

Feel free to haunt my site, anytime!